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Heterodork's avatar

Steersman, I keep reading your comments but get no closer to understanding your position. If this is a push towards Socratic inquiry all the power to you, but I have long since stopped blaming myself for not understanding other peoples ideas because I realised most often it was the writer's failure to communicate them, which in turn reflected that they did not know what they're talking about.

Now, i think you highlight valid issues with sex definitions for individuals. A point in time definition of sex won't do - obviously a boy is a potential man, and post-menopausal woman is a women. So the definition needs that.

Next, people can have various genetic issues that mean they are not functional in terms of reproduction. This necessitates a kind of polythetic, or family resemblances, definition which you might call spectrum-lite. Clearly lacking some capability with placenta growth or some such, but in all other aspects having the right apparatus doesn't exclude you from being a woman, or shooting blanks not make you a man.

Next, there are intersex people with both male and female sex characteristics, but usually a lack of functional capability in terms of reproduction. Biologically, these individuals are the third-sex, not male or female, but neither.

Next, life is social and so in an important sense, though not exclusively, are the categories women/man. We do not do DNA tests for assigning into sex based groups or do genital tests for entry into toilets so somebody who has been living as a woman all her life in the social sense, yet is not a biological woman (being intersex) naturally is 'socially' a woman, if they have passed by virtue of accruing enough of the secondary sex characteristics.

Which brings us to the slippery slope. If a man, say, has female characteristics through hormones and considers themselves a woman, should they be accommodated under the social category? A brief aside-note the case of intersex is a social accommodation - it's not consequence free to appear as if you're a biological sex that you don't really belong to, in dating for example people might find it a betrayal to find out at the last, the actual truth of someone being intersex but presenting as a man or woman. But because of the family resemblances belonging, someone who can not have children for some specific genetic reason still belongs to the actual category, not just the social category - this would invoke disappointment but not the same sense of betrayal/confusion.

What makes the family resemblances delineation possible is that there is a real thing that exists, the sex binary, man and woman are not just arbitrary names we apply to create the categories (ie nominalism). Most of us fall cleanly into either category and it should be possible to assign those close to the full set of attributes to the category, while pushing some people into the no-sex category.

But back to the slippery slope of the social category and what degree of accommodation is possible. Well, if you believe that there are real differences between biological men and women, despite natural variation within them, then you might not want to accept someone into the social category just because they have some characteristics and identify in their heads as such. There is a real difference between choosing a sex (or having it chosen for you) because you're intersex and your life would likely be more difficult not to choose a social category, and choosing a sex based on the idea you're a different sex than you actually are.

How have I done, is this some of the thing you're pointing to?

Please *explain* to me, or be explicit that you want people to engage socratically with it.

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Apple Pie's avatar

Twenty three comments but only two likes? Your post is a bit meandering, but I'm quite happy to make the likes number three!

https://thingstoread.substack.com/p/how-many-genders-are-there

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